(Interview) Restructuring not the solution to Nigeria’s problems – Ogunade

Lagos based lawyer and activist, Mr Wale Ogunade has insisted that growing agitation for restructuring is misplaced, as according to him, it is not the solution to the country’s challenges. Ogunade who aired his view in this interview with Business Hallmark’s Obinna Ezugwu said that what the country needed was good governance. He commended President Muhammadu Buhari’s anti-corruption effort, noting that despite the economic challenges, the president was on the right track.

Excerpts:

May 29 made it two years since Buhari took office. Looking back would you say you are impressed with him so far?

When Buhari was coming in, the only thing he told us was that he will change Nigeria by fighting corruption; that was his key point. Others were campaign on issues that were brought in by lieutenants and other people who are politicians, but unfortunately man is not God. Ill-health has affected him and has taken him away for the better part of this first half of his tenure. When he was strong, we knew and saw how he really dealt with the menace called corruption. And for me, if that is the only thing he achieved I’m OK, because indeed it has helped to reduce the leakages in the system. Not that it has eliminated it, which of course, is because of his state of health.

Obviously, he is the one who has the idea and knows how to go about it. Since he is not around, the fight will not be as it would have been. Be that as it may, issues of food crisis, no money in the system and other things that have accompanied it are things that would naturally happen as a result of change, but one thing I know is that the government does not owe salaries; that is quite clear, unlike what was happening before when governments were going to borrow money to pay salaries from banks and international organizations.

Then, of course, the rule of law: The government has not really obeyed court orders and instruments of the rule of law, and one would not take it away from the man called Buhari, his military mentality is still there. But I want to believe he has no apology to anyone. He believes that anybody who does anything against the law will face the music, so the issues of legal gymnastics and technicalities that lawyers would introduce will not work well with him. Again, I’m not speaking for him, but if that is what will sanitize the system, so be it. There was the sting operation, which I believe has helped to put some elements of sanity into the judicial system. I am a litigation lawyer which means I go to court regularly. And I know the attitude of judges now. Unlike before, the judges now behave themselves because they know that indeed there are people who will blow the whistle on them when they take any false step.

The APC had said it would restructure Nigeria during their campaign, but Buhari has since shoved aside the idea. Do you share the view that the country needs restructuring to move forward?

Nigeria is not as big as America, neither is it as big as Australia. The issue of restructuring is going in a wrong way, what people should be promoting is good governance, and that’s what people like us want, not restructuring. If you say for instance, let the Igbo produce the next president, even in Anambra alone, you will have issues amongst the North, South and Central. Not to talk of Enugu, Ebonyi and so on. When Obasanjo was president, you remember the Yoruba did not even support him, they didn’t vote for him, even in his backyard.

So it is about good governance. If there is good governance, the issue of all these agitations for restructuring will go. Because you will know that there is social security net for you. If you need N200,000, you go to the bank, the bank gives you the money, and the system is there for you to enable you to pay back. You have social security systems in America and Europe, even in India, but there is no supportive system for anybody in Nigeria, everyone is on his own looking for daily bread. That is why when people get into government, they the steal the country dry because they know that once they are outside, they are on their own.

You can go and ask the Babagidas of this world, the Obasanjos of this world. Then, of course, you can go and ask the Balarabes of this world; those who were in government and did not touch government money, and those who were there and touched government money; you will clearly see the difference. It is about the system, for me it is not about restructuring the way they are using it now. People say Nigeria should be divided into six regions – that will not solve the problem. Within the regions themselves, if there is no good governance; if the institutions are not put in place to take care of the poor; to take care of rich, the students, women and so on, then there would still be agitation for restructuring.

Once more, I ask, is Nigeria as big as India or America?  But those countries are managing themselves because there is good governance. The system in India takes care of the poor, is there any system in Nigeria that takes care of the poor?  There is none. When we did this save Nigeria protest, the government came and said they will do this and do that, but it all came to nothing. Even this very government promised to take care of students, pay the indigent N5000 per month, but there is really nothing on ground. When you look at the totality of all these issues, you know that definitely, Nigeria needs good governance, it is not about restructuring. And I am talking with authority, I know that a Yoruba man has been president, and Yoruba people were agitating even during his presidency. A Hausa/Fulani man is there now, the Hausa people are still agitating.

It is a general thing, it is unfortunate that some people are looking at it and saying they want to leave, it can’t be. I want to address it pointedly, the issue of Biafra coming out to say they want to leave. I have been to Igbo land, and I know that if anything, it is the Igbo people that are their worst enemies. They will not come together to talk to themselves and see how they can develop themselves. I am talking about ecological problems that they have there, I am talking about the various autonomous communities. If Igbo land is not developed, I tell you, Nigeria cannot develop because Igbo land is the heartbeat of industrial development in Nigeria.

And I am disappointed in Ogbonnaya Onu because as minister of technology; and I am sure, that’s why Buhari made him the minister, so that his position and qualifications will come to bear in galvanising industrial activities at home in Igbo land. He should be supporting people like Innoson and all these people in the Nnewi sector and turn it into Japan of West Africa. I expect that the man should go and have his office in Aba, Onitsha or Nnewi, not in Abuja where they are politicking and carrying files.

Talking about Onitsha, Nnewi industrial axis, athough they also blame themselves to an extent, but they say their problem is mostly government neglect. They say for instance that they were deliberately excluded from this proposed rail line; what is your view?

Remember, I said that first, they are the architect of their own woes, second that the Minister of Technology has no business in Abuja. If he stays in Nnewi or Onitsha or Aba, people will be going there. He will be directing activities of that ministry from there, so people would be going there, their offices would be there. Anybody who wants to work with them or partner with them would go there. That way, they would feel the impact of government. I said earlier that it must be a deliberate policy of Buhari to appoint a South Easterner as Minister of Science and Technology because that area is the hallmark of the Igbo.

I am a Yoruba man, I tell you, Yoruba people are not science inclined; they are business inclined. What they should do is that they should continue to interact with Onu to go there and attend to them. Are they expecting Buhari or Osinbajo to come there? It can’t work. Then on the issue of the railway line that cut them off, it was not yesterday that it happened. It had been on the pipeline, and I am sure it must have been shown to the South East people, but they kept quiet. You cannot keep quiet on issues like this. That is why the South West are better, whenever we notice that something is going against our interest, we come out together with one voice, but in the South East, they will not come out with one voice, everybody will be looking for how it will pay him, and not the generality of the people. That is why you have that problem.

Recently the Chief of Army Staff, Tukur Buratai raised alarm over certain army officers hobnobbing with politicians with a view to carrying out a coup. How does this thing come across to you?

Obviously, those who are calling for coup just want to cut themselves by their feet. That’s the simple answer to them. For your information, coup and military government is an aberration all over the world. And for you to know, when they have meetings of leaders, you don’t see military people there. When Babangida was there, he dared it once, he went for one of those international meetings on his military uniform but was dismissed. That is why whenever he was traveling out of Nigeria, he went on civilian dress even though he was a military head of state.  They too know, and they are afraid. This is akin to a married woman who goes to another man’s room and she is coming out. Obviously, she knows that such is a big shame. It is the same thing here.

Military rule is an aberration all over the world. Now, the world has come together to say that any country where there is a military coup, the world will unite and get them out, and of course they will go to jail. Anybody who wants power, all he needs to do is to seek people’s mandate. Remove your military uniform, destroy it and seek the people’s mandate. The barrel of the gun is not longer fashionable as the road to power. The road to power now is through the ballot box. Anyone who is thinking of calling the military or the soldiers themselves thinking that they can carry out a coup should perish that thought. I tell you, Nigerians are now wiser, they may think that Nigerians are docile, but they should try and see. I am talking from experience because obviously, I am an ‘Aluta’ general.

But their ambition has the capacity to plunge Nigeria into crisis?

That’s it, and let me just add that if anything happens now, this is not Nigeria of 1960 when the young military guys just came, killed some leaders of some sections of the country and people were looking. No doubt, it led to the Biafran war, but this may be bigger than that. But again, the constitution is there, we have passed that stage. People know the implication of the presidential and the vice presidential ticket, so it doesn’t matter if the President is Hausa and the vice president is Yoruba, if he is no more, which I don’t pray for…

Really I know that nothing will happen to him. This time around, I pray that God will direct the doctors to the source of the sickness so they can cure it. I know that it will happen, the man will come back strong and healthy, that’s a digression… If anything happens, automatically power follows from him to the vice president. Nobody will say because the vice president is a Yoruba man, he should resign, it doesn’t work like that. It doesn’t mean that Saraki or Dogara should become the president. There is a constitutional provision.