South East has been comatose due to bad leadership

A chieftain of the All Progressive Grand Alliance (APGA), Barr Robert Okechukwu Okoroji has stated that Imo State governor, Owelle Rochas Okorocha does not have the capacity to be the political leader of the South East region.  Okoroji also berated Mr. Jimi Agabje, the Peoples Democratic Party governorship candidate in Lagos for lack of courage to take his mandate, alleging that the poll was rigged in favour of APC.  He spoke with Hallmark’s EZUGWU OBINNA. Excepts:

You are a chieftain of APGA, a party that a lot of people, especially the Igbo thought would take control of South East the way the then ACN did in the South West. But all of a sudden the party went downhill, what really happened?

First and foremost, I want to correct that false impression that APGA is an Igbo party; it is actually not an Igbo party. It is a national party duly registered by INEC. There are requirements for registering a national party, and the party met all the requirements. It is a national party because it has presence in all the states of the country; including Lagos. It is also a national party because in its leadership; both at the national and various state levels, there is spread… ethnic spread as enshrined in its constitution.

At the national level particularly, we have a man from Anambra (Victor Ike Oye) as the National Chairman; the National Secretary is from Nasarawa State, that is the former Minister of Information, Mr. Labaran Maku. And we have other officers of the party from other parts of the country. However, it is true that the party has its origin from the Eastern part of Nigeria. The founder, Chief Chekwas Okorie is of Eastern extraction and it is a party with the primary objective of giving all Nigerians a voice and protection in government at different levels, regardless of ethnic extraction. It is a party aimed at giving a voice to those who have hitherto been marginalized.
Looking at the leadership of APGA presently, the current chairman of the party is from Anambra, the immediate past chairman, Victor Umeh is also from Anambra and it is the only state being controlled by the party. Don’t you think it would have been wise to cede the chairmanship position to another zone?
The party already has a national outlook, whether anybody agrees or not. Let me tell you, it is not only about the number of states you control. Does it mean a party does not exist because that party could not produce a governor?  In the national assembly, there are APGA members who are not from Anambra State but from other states; from Abia. There are many House of Assembly members in other states on APGA platform. When you talk about control, it does not mean that when a state does not have an APGA governor the party does not have any stake in that state. It is not correct. Talking about the election of chairman, the party has a constitution and it is the provision of that constitution that the process of leadership recruitment follows strictly.

We de-emphasize ethnicity or ethnic nationalism in the party. If you look at the membership in terms of number, you and I know that a whole lot of APGA members are from the South East. It is probably in Lagos that you find reasonably large number of people. There are South Westerners in the leadership. The national vice chairman is from Ogun State, his name is Dickson Olalere and Oyo State had held the position over the years. The deputy national organising secretary of the party, Engr. Campbell is also from Lagos.
You said Chekwas Okorie founded the party. There was a time when he was engaged in bitter rivalry with Victor Umeh over the leadership of the party. Why was it so?

There is no human association in which you do not have disagreements and conflicts. In fact, politics is about conflict and conflict resolution; conflict of interest, negotiation of interest and resolution of disagreements. So it is not unusual; it is not unprecedented that APGA had disagreements in matters concerning leadership. Chekwas Okorie was the founder of the party that is a fact that is not disputable. Victor Umeh succeeded him in circumstances that were not particularly palatable. The party became divided between Umeh and Okorie, but what gave Umeh what seemed to be an edge was the court judgment in his favour. The fact that he got judgment does not necessarily mean that he was right in whatever he did or whatever he failed to do that led to the conflict.

But who can query the decision of the court? Sometimes justice is miscarried. But that’s a matter for another day. Umeh assumed leadership. Chekwas Okorie was the man who conceived the idea of APGA, who nurtured the idea of APGA and had the party remained under his leadership, perhaps it would have done better than it has done. From the time Umeh assumed office, through his almost eight years in office, up till the time he left, we would be reluctant to say that the party grew or expanded. We used to have two states, now we have one. And there were a whole lot of internal injustices under Umeh’s administration, and of course corruption.

The fact must be made clear that what I would call merchandizing, a whole lot of merchandising was going on both at the national and state levels, corruption was rife. In Lagos State here, the party’s chances were marred by corruption from its leadership. But what is interesting now is that there is a new leadership, and the new leadership has a clear agenda that is a total departure from the agenda under Victor Umeh. The new chairman who is also Victor is a visionary Victor. He wants to take the party to the next level, and corruption is over. The bar has been raised.
Are you considering encouraging Okorie to return to the party in this regard?

Quite frankly, in my personal opinion, and I am entitled to my opinion. If it is possible, I am of the opinion that if it pleases Okorie; he is the spiritual leader of the party, you can’t take it away from him, if he wants to return, I will urge our members to accept him back with open arms. He has a right to return, he is entitled to move from one party to another. He is entitled to even keep in abeyance the second party he has formed which he presently chairs and on which platform he ran for presidency. I am of the opinion that Chekwas Okorie remains the spiritual leader of APGA, whether anybody likes it or not. And for the sake of synergy, I am looking forward to a day APGA and Okorie’s UPP will form a common front in pursuit of our collective interest.
The immediate past governor of Anambra, Mr. Peter Obi left APGA as soon as he left office. What could have prompted him to leave a party under whose platform he won the governorship twice?

Well, I think Obi is the right person to answer that question. I remember, shortly before he publicly announced his defection from APGA to PDP, I ran into him somewhere in Lagos and I had a brief discussion with him at the hotel venue where I met him, where he was briefing the press. I told him about my intentions to run for governorship of Lagos State, and he encouraged me but that was all the communication I had with him, shortly after, I learnt he has left APGA. I think the internal injustices in APGA as at that time could be a factor. You know there was this battle for supremacy between the national chairman of the party and the governor of the state, who was then the national leader; that battle of supremacy could have resulted in that, or perhaps he found greener pastures in PDP. But that is not to say that the party cannot function without him, the party is already blossoming; the new leadership of the party, I’m sure in due course will announce to the public its clear agenda. We are heading somewhere.
How much impact do you think Obi’s exit have on the party?

It is natural; it is politically correct to say that Obi was a very prominent member of the party considering his status as a former governor. He was not just an ordinary member of the party, he was the national leader. He was a man of consequence, his exit was noticeable. But having said that, there is no one man that constitutes a party; any individual can leave a party. Bola Tinubu left ACN and formed APC. It is also true that Atiku Abubakar left PDP for APC. It is true that some people left PDP and joined APC, like the present senate president. But the PDP survived, it won election in many parts of the country, even though it didn’t win the presidency. The exit would naturally affect the party only to a limited extent. It is a duly registered association, members will come in; members will go but the party will remain.

Many people actually believed APGA would win Abia State in the last election, but the party lost to the PDP?

We are already in court to challenge the outcome of that election. Dr. Alex Otti is challenging it, and he is doing so energetically. From the look of things he has ample evidence to show he won the election. Having said that, I will not mince words in saying that what contributed to the popularity of APGA in Abia is not only the status of the individual involved, but the bad government in the state. People of Abia State were almost desperate for a change. Anybody could have beaten PDP in that election if it wasn’t rigged. Aba was totally destroyed under the leadership of T.A Orji and his predecessor.

In fact, Abia was considered to be the worst of all the eastern states in terms of governance. And that shored up the chances of APGA in the state. But more than rigging, what also contributed to, in my view, the problems of APGA in Abia were also internal injustices within APGA. You find there were some party members in Abia to whom injustices were done. They contested for tickets and never got tickets, there were people who won primaries and never got tickets. Tickets were given to those who were in good relationship with the leadership. And what do you expect from members of a party to whom injustices were done by their own party? The natural thing is that they will begin to work against the party; they will begin to align with the opposition.

Few people will acknowledge this very point, but it is fact. There were a lot of aggrieved people, not only in Abia but also in many other states, including Lagos, Anambra and Imo. Alex Otti worked assiduously to achieve his ambition, and from the look of things; from the totality of the circumstance that brought Okezie Ikpeazu to victory in quote, I know that the tribunal will decide in our favour, in favour of Otti. Indeed if there were to be free and fair election, PDP would not have had a chance. Not because it is PDP but because the former governor, T.A Orji was a lame duck, he had no idea of what it took to be a governor. In the entire environment of Abia State, you look around you see T.A Orji’s billboard on heaps of garbage; you see heaps of garbage all over Aba and when you look around, you see T.A Orji’s billboards on top of those garbage, and it would be stated on the billboard that T.A Orji is working. That gave Alex Otti an edge. In addition, he had a clear agenda; he was able to express his intentions to the people of Abia, and make clear to them what his programmes are going to be. It would have been a smooth ride, but for the rigging and the internal wrangling within the party. But now, the new leadership has taken over and all those issues have been resolved. The outcome of the Abia governorship tussle will be dependent on the tribunal.
It was in the news recently that INEC office in Abia caught fire. Then there was an alleged attempt to assassinate Otti, do you suspect foul play?

You can’t rule it out. There have been many cases of arson in Nigeria, both targeted at state and federal government projects and establishments. But what is essential is that in most cases, arson is used as an instrument of cover up. You and I were witnesses here of the arson in Niger House in Lagos Island, Cocoa House was also burnt, NEPA offices have been burnt in the past. In most cases, investigation revealed that they were actually made to cover up certain things. If you notice, in those establishments, the fire often started from the accounts section. But in the case of Abia, I cannot tell who is responsible; but I am sure it is not our party or our candidate because Otti is a responsible gentleman, APGA is a responsible party and for a man who is anxious to show that indeed there are facts in the data of INEC to prove that he won the election, he won’t be the one that would want to destroy that same evidence. So your guess is as good as mine as to who might be responsible for the arson.
Let’s look at national politics. Buhari has been variously accused of neglecting the South East in his appointments?

Well, the appointments are a reflection of the mindset of the people in power. The exclusionist method of the appointment, the exclusion of states that are PDP states; were Buhari lost elections woefully will give you an idea that the APC led federal government under Buhari is very vindictive. Buhari forgets that he is no longer a presidential candidate of APC; he is now the President of Nigeria and a statesman. And a statesman should not put party affiliations, voting pattern in elections, ethnicity, religion and region under much considerations while making appointments. You consider competence.

Now, does it mean there are no competent people in the South East or South-South to deserve positions and political offices under Buhari? Indeed, that is a section where you have the best of professionals; experts, technocrats, including Lagos here. Buhari has to be reminded that he is the president of Nigeria. He should be fair and just, he should realize that even if he didn’t get as many votes as he expected in South East and South-South, it doesn’t mean he didn’t get votes.

In fact, he got thousands of votes in many localities there. But having not got the largest votes, it doesn’t mean that the people are not entitled to their opinion that is the essence of democracy. If he wants to win the next election, I doubt if he would return. This is the time to court the South East and South-South and bring them into the fold. Get the electorate in those zones to have a sense of belonging. To believe that Buhari is fair, large hearted and determined to bring the country together. I am not pleased particularly with the appointment pattern, it is sectional; it is a reflection of bigotry, it is vindictive, it is myopic. He has little or no consideration for competence and other more useful factors that should be put in place. You can’t convince anybody in this world that there are no competent people in South Eastern and South Southern Nigeria to deserve key appointments. That’s why I still insist that his appointment pattern is vindictive, parochial and sectional.
Presently there seems to be resurgence in the quest for Biafra with Radio Biafra and all that. What in your opinion led to this?

Everywhere in the world, people agitate. What is essential is that they are not violent, it is their constitutional right. What we would disagree with is a resort to violence. But there is nothing in the conduct of those agitating for Biafra that suggests they are violent or want to use violence the way Boko Haram has used violence over the years to kill human beings. I do not think the agitators for Biafra have killed anyone; I don’t know of anybody they have bombed, I don’t know of any region they have destroyed. So they need to be listened to, they may have legitimate demands; it is not just enough to clamp them down, because the truth is that you can suppress an idea but not one whose time has come. If the time has come for the idea that these people are talking about, you can only delay it; you cannot stop it. One is not by any means supporting insurgency, or dismemberment of the country, but justice must be done to all. Their demands should be looked into in the interest of Nigeria.

The recently concluded election witnessed a lot of tension between the Yoruba and non indigenes, especially the Igbo based on the fact that they are mainly in support of PDP?

Let me address the Lagos issue first. The last election was an eye opener, but what I will not accept is the impression that the Igbo in Lagos are mainly PDP. On the contrary, the Igbo in Lagos are mainly APGA. It is just the internal corruption in the leadership of APGA that whittled down its potential and gave PDP an edge that it never had. It is also instructive to note the things that transpired during that election. A lot of people were willing to vote for PDP because they were disenchanted with the APC marshal style leadership foisted on the people of Lagos for more than 16 years, from 1999. They were determined to vote out the government of APC. I can tell you confidently that the election in Lagos was rigged. The figures were doctored. It is a fact that Jimmy Agbaje would have won that election.

Agbaje did not become governor, not because he did not have majority of the votes but because he did not have the courage to take his mandate. He backed out of the race even before the election. A lot of his supporters held out and were ready to take the bullets in quote on his behalf just to see that they ended the government of APC in the state. But the truth is that Agbaje went under due to threats that were ethnically inspired. You recall the threat by the Oba of Lagos to throw the Igbo into the ocean. I still insist it was an empty threat, he has no such capacity. If anything, that threat even strengthened the PDP and strengthened the so called non indigenes to vote for Agbaje.

But unfortunately, Agbaje was not prepared to hold out. As a leader, you cannot lead from behind; you have to lead from the front. Agbaje did not show leadership, he did not show determination to take the people out of the woods, so he was cowardly. Talking about the South East, the zone like every other zone, has inherent untapped potential. The resources of the South East are untapped; untapped because the leaders have not maximized the potential of the zone both in terms of resources and human capital. We have enormous human capital, technocrats, business men, entrepreneurs; they are all over the globe. The region has been comatose, not only because of neglect by federal government but because of bad leadership. The bad leadership in the South East contributed a lot in this regard. Quite frankly, I had expected that what the agitators of Biafra should have been doing should be to pressure the governors in the zone; to identity the corrupt ones and expose them. Pressure them to develop the South East and create the suitable business environment that would make the people of that zone to begin to return and do business there and of course increase the zone’s potential. Then, other things will follow after that. But that is not happening and it is unfortunate.
Imo State governor, Rochas Okorocha stated not long ago that he was already working with other governors of the South East in this regard. Do you trust him to lead the Igbo?

With due respect to Owelle Rochas Okorocha, I don’t think he has what it takes to lead the South East. He has not been able to lead Imo State aright. Therefore, he cannot be in a position to lead the South East aright. He is not a clean man; I think he is a corrupt governor. The publication recently made that is all over in the media, he was listed among the most corrupt governors in the country; if he is even not number one. His vision for development in Imo State is abysmally limited. Imo has potential to succeed but I am not very optimistic that the state would achieve that el-dorado under Okorocha.

This is partly because of the party he belongs to. It is a party that thrives in crisis atmosphere, if they are not in control, they are out of control. In Imo, you could see Rochas has made the state a pariah state. He is running a monarchy of some sort. One man government, a kind of oriental despot and it is unfortunate. There’s no proper accountability in terms of the finances of the state. He would award contracts without documentation; a lot of things are going wrong in that state already. If he has said he was going to lead the South East towards designing development plan for the region, I have doubts as to whether he can do it.
You once aspired to govern Lagos State, is the ambition still alive?

I am still anxious to govern Lagos.

What gives you the confidence knowing the kind of distrust that exists between the indigenes and non-indigenes here?

I need you to quickly note that the Nigerian constitution does not distinguish between indigenes and non-indigenes. In fact, the word indigene was not mentioned anywhere in the constitution; not even a casual reference. I am an indigene of Nigeria and I am qualified to be the governor of Lagos State. That is why there was no legal challenge the first time I contested; nobody challenged my status in court. I am a Nigerian, I sought to lead Lagos state in the last election, I still look forward to 2019 to realize that objective. And I know the people of Lagos are behind me, they were forced into the present APC government in Lagos State. What we are looking forward to is, to bring together all ethnic nationalities; all people regardless of where they come from because Lagos is a cosmopolitan city, it is a melting point. If you are a Nigerian by birth, you do business in Lagos, you pay your taxes; you do all that is expected of you as a citizen of Lagos, you are entitled to seek to serve in the office of local government chairman, House of Assembly, House of Reps, governor…. It is a right, a right is your property; a right is not a privilege. If anybody thinks he is more indigenous in Lagos than I am, then the person should look into the pages of history and tell me what makes him more indigenous than I am.

We know when each group arrived Lagos. I am a historian by inclination. The Igbo have been here since the 16th century, people do not know. The first set of Igbo that arrived here, the Aro Igbo settled in Oyingbo, and that is how that name evolved. The Aworis arrived here almost at the same time. The Aworis were the first Yoruba people that arrived here from Ile-Ife. The Binis arrived and set up the monarchical institution in Lagos Island, so if anybody talks about indigenship in Lagos, and says that Okechukwu Okoroji is not an indigene and therefore, is not entitled to be the governor of Lagos State, the question I will ask that person is, is the Oba of Lagos an indigene? Considering that his ancestors came from Benin. If he is an indigene, then I am also an indigene because the ancestors of the Igbo came almost at the same time as the Aworis and the Binis arrived here.

So, show me that man who germinated from the soils of Lagos. We all migrated at different times, and the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, luckily for us, empowers every Nigerian in Lagos to seek to serve, we are all in for service. It should not be of any consequence what ethnic nationality I belong or religious affiliation I have. People should be more concerned about the policies that I intend to introduce to lift the living standards of the people of Lagos, the innovations I intend to introduce; the good governance and a more focused and responsible leadership that we know that any time soon, we will be able to achieve in Lagos State, and put an end to the mafia style leadership in Lagos foisted by the Asiwajus of this world. In no distant time, the APC led government in Lagos State will be a thing of the past. Let me also emphasize that APGA has the potential to achieve this laudable objective. 2019 will not be an easy ride for the APC that I can tell you…