NASS members only interested in jumbo pay- Fasheun

Dr Fredrick Fasheun is the founder of the Oodua Peoples Congress (OPC) and the national chairman of the Unity Party of Nigeria (UPN). In this interview with OLUSESAN LAOYE, he kicked against the bail-out given to state governors by the presidency. According to him the state governors should be made to account for the allocations they have collected without anything to show for it. Fasheun also said that Asiwaju Bola Tinubu means well for the country to have invested his fortune to the victory of the All Progressives Congress. Excerpts:

What is your present stand on the political situation in the country now that we have a new government at the federal level?

I will say that right now, Nigeria is on auto-pilot and the only visible segment of the Nigerian government is the presidency, as represented by the President Muhammadu Buhari. He has been going round various places in the world and fighting against known corruption. The legislators were voted in and immediately they resumed, they turned the national assembly into a boxing ring and in the process, they had to go on holiday. As far as I am concerned, the legislature has not been visible. Nigeria is now in political doldrums. You will be surprised that, the change we are expecting and when the All Progressives Congress (APC) was shouting change- change, which Nigerians strongly believe in, but the change we have noticed has been in the negative.

There has not been any positive change. So, that is my own way of looking at the political situation in the country now. Again, the legislators are not doing anything and if any at all, they were asking for jumbo pay and governors are asking for bail out without telling the country what they have done with the previous allocations. We were told that there was no money in the treasury, but there was money to bail out governors that have stolen from our common wealth. To me, I don’t see that as fighting corruption. The President came in and we were jubilant when he said that he would probe past governments without bias and people were happy that the law has caught up with them. But that expectation was depleted when he decides that he would probe only former President Jonathan’s government. This in the eyes of decent Nigerians would not amount to anti-corruption but witch hunting.

In the real sense of it what you are trying to say is that the present government is after the perceived enemies of their political party? 

That is my personal view because people were being retired all over the places, especially those who have been in the opposition to the government now. Those members are being hunted down, being arrested, being searched, probed and so on and so forth. To me that does not amount to democracy. Democracy is a level playing ground where everybody no matter how high, who has been perceived to have stolen from our common wealth, should be probed. Mind you 75% of the rich men in this country have robbed Nigerians of our treasury.

How do you think this can be recovered without being selective?

We have the laws. The laws are there. To me, we don’t need to make new laws. The laws are resting on the shelves and the files are gathering dust. May be we should set up a body to review our past laws. Those laws that have out lived their usefulness should be discarded, while many of them would still be useful. Don’t we have laws against theft, insurgency, lawlessness, impunity, corruption, rape and other criminal offences? These laws have been there and what the new government should do is to commit itself to reviewing our laws and make corrections where necessary. That is why we have the legislature.

Do you think what you said we are experiencing now in the few months of the present government is a reflection of the kind of people in the ruling party and around Mr. President?

I have said at different occasions that most of these characters don’t love the country and all they care about was to be voted in and collect gigantic salaries and allowances, contracts and expect the next election. Nigerian politicians don’t have the love of this country. Once they get elected, they are looking forward to the next elections. When the sing song of change was on, and people elected President Buhari as the president of the country, people jubilated because we know his commitments to the fight against corruption.

But here we are, the net has become very porous, many of those we thought would face the law are now in foreign countries and we wonder what is the responsibility of our security operatives, customs, SSS, immigration, police and other security bodies. What I am saying is that attention must first be on the servants of government. They should be called to order to hold their functions as primary responsibility to the nation. There are many Nigerians now outside the country because they are trying to escape the law. We just have to appeal to foreign countries to look into their banks and help us retrieve what they have stolen from the country.

The crisis in your political party, the Unity Party of Nigeria (UPN), at a stage escalated with the splinter group announcing that you are no longer the national chairman of the party. What is the situation now?

I must confess to you that they have not succeeded in destabilizing the UPN. National executive of the party met recently (two days ago) in Owerri. No one has succeeded in derailing us. We had a focus we had our national executive council meeting in Lagos in March, and we followed it three months later in Owerri which was two days ago. Before that we had one in Abuja and Kaduna. We are now all over the place and we thank God. Those who feel disgruntled constitute what I call all noise but no action. Where are they?  I understand that somebody called himself the national chairman, one Professor whom I have never met. I have not even seen him as a member of the party, so he came out now that he is the national chairman of the party.

Well I am not surprised because Nigerians are fond of calling themselves names and awarding themselves titles. Musicians call themselves king; some call themselves professors and whatever they feel. So in that sense, there is nothing in a name. It is only a mark of identity and identity may be factual or empty. As far as the Unity Party of Nigeria is concerned, I remain the only national chairman of the party, because the certificate of the registration of the party is still with me.

What then is the future of the party because the party despite the fact that it supported former President Goodluck Jonathan to win reelection performed woefully in the states where it fielded candidates?

Let me make this clarification, the party did not contest any election as UPN and I made it certainly clear before the election that the UPN was not going to participate as UPN in any election, but we studied the manifestoes of various political groups and said that any one that was in consonant with ours, that we would collaborate with and it was on the basis of that, that we collaborated with the Peoples Democratic Party in the presidential election and after that we returned to our camp. We are now strategizing and by the grace of God in the coming elections you will see a well reformed UPN and all of you will come to give us commendations.

Again we could not have participated in the last elections because we were registered only 18 months to the elections and those we are going to contest with had been in the turf for 16 years, and there was no way we could have been able to flex muscles with those who have been on the turf for that length of time. We realized that much and because we are Nigerians who had to participate in the politics of our country that was why we chose those who did not say change for nothing. Now Nigerians seem to be biting their lips to comply with the swan song of a political party.

Do you still believe in former President Goodluck Jonathan?

Former President Jonathan was a good servant. We are now already comparing what President Jonathan did with what is now happening, and that is why some Nigerians are now biting their lips. I repeat Jonathan was a good servant, a good president. Throughout his period there was no abuse of rights, he did not jail anybody that was not convicted by the courts. He did not engage in any probe because he did not want to rock the boat. He wanted peace and he gave peace to this country and that was why he had the chance to do what he did. Look at the Lagos-Ibadan road, Lagos-Ore-Benin road and other roads in the country. These are things you expect a leader to do not that a leader should come in and set the nation on auto-pilot. What we want is a change in a positive manner.

What do you think of the present crop of members of the National Assembly, do you think they will be able to live to the expectations of Nigerians?

Although it is too early to say or to assess them but to me they have not so far lived up to our expectations and it is that bad. We hope that they would listen to the voices of reasoning and mend their ways and get ready to serve a gifted country like Nigeria.  Unfortunately we expected that they will start to run as soon as they came into office, but they have not done that. Rather than doing what is right they started asking for their wardrobe allowances and other benefits and honestly and frankly speaking, that is not the best way to serve your country.

Politics should be a selfless service; you allow the country to give you commendation. We are now giving commendation to Zik, Awolowo, Sardauna of Sokoto because we cannot find their shipping lines, we cannot find their banks, we cannot see their international hotels and all we have seen is free education, agriculture and decent infrastructure. When I was living Nigeria for the United Kingdom the total federal budget of Nigeria was 38 million pounds. Awolowo was there to give the people free education, he built the roads, he developed rural/urban integration and people started building estates in virtually every local government areas and his people were happy. When there is a good ruler, the people are happy.

Do you now think that Nigeria could return to the era of Awolowo, Zik and Sardauna to get the people who will be as patriotic as they were?

Honestly, there are still many decent Nigerians but unfortunately one percent of them are money bags and the Nigerian politics is studded with demand for money. It has gotten so bad to the extent that we have device means and very ridiculous one for that matter of bribing the electorate by stuffing money in the bread at the polling booths when they line up to vote. When you offer them bread on the day of elections, they know that it is not just bread but there is butter inside.

So that kind of system must be changed. Some of us are happy we may be in an opposing camp but we are happy that President Buhari who had an antecedent of fight against corruption is now there. The character of a group is a manifestation of the leadership’s character but we hope and pray that his own character and integrity would go down into those who are assisting him in government.

How will you react to the appointments so far made by President Buhari because some people are saying that it is lopsided?

So far, I will say that not the South West alone is being maginalised, a few places are being maginalised and I think he should be advised to realize that he is the president of Nigeria. Our constitution stipulates that every part of the country should be represented in government so that the federal character would manifest, and there would be no voice shouting maginalisation. We hope he would listen to advisers whose main commitments are to Nigeria as a federation.

Each state is expected to have representations in the government, so that we would jubilate on the federal character stipulated in our constitution but so far, it is as if people have thrown aside federal character clause and just doing what their personal conscience dictates for them.

Do you think the intention of the new federal government could be achieved with the reduction of ministers and ministries based on the federal character clause you have just mentioned?

This is not a matter of solo dictation. He should revert to the national assembly because you cannot reverse any clause in our constitution without recourse to the national assembly, because doing that would amount to illegality. If he chooses to reduce the number of ministers then how will he be able to have 37 ministers with each minister representing each state and the federal capital territory? If he wants to work against what the constitution says, he should go to the national assembly. He cannot dictate. He is not a dictator he is now a democrat and he should do things democratically. That is why Nigerians voted for him and he should not make us to believe that the leopard don’t change their skins.

The issue of the last national conference is still raising dust, how do you think the recommendations could be implemented by the present government to give room for the decentralization of government at the centre which is being advocated?

To me Nigeria would not move near democracy without considering and implementing the recommendations of the report of the confab. Democracy is supposed to be self determinations; it says that the periphery should be stronger than the centre as supposed to what we are running now. That is why everybody goes cap in hand to Abuja. That should not be the case. What we should have is self determination, and autonomy of states. In those days, the three regions each had its own constitution and that was why they were able to progress and able to move at their individual paces. We are now very nostalgic of that period.

Since Awolowo, Zik and Sardauna left our national consciousness no Nigerian has occupied their places. The life of a nation is not the reflection of an individual; it is a reflection of the activities of a group governing them. But unfortunately we have not been able to replace those who have made their mark in their national consciousness.

 The issue of civil servants being owed backlog of salaries arrears by their state governors is condemnable, what do you have to say to this?

This was what brought about the bail out which the federal government gave to the state and I think the federal government should not have doled out money to the states, because we are all aware that some of them are thieves. You see, they did not tell us what they did with the previous allocations. That was why some of us are complaining because we want to know what they used the previous allocations on. Why should they all go to Abuja for the presidency to bail them out? If Abuja must bail them out, they should as well be made to account for what they collected in the past and that is what we are saying.

In the process of bailing them out, some innocent characters are being smeared. They said Jonathan left the treasury empty and two weeks after we were bailing out debtors then, one now need to ask are they telling lies against Jonathan. Didn’t Jonathan left something tangible in the treasury? There is a biblical saying that says righteousness exalts a nation and sin is a reproach and lying is a sin. I am not saying that Jonathan was a saint president. We don’t have angels in Nigeria this is the truth and we must be honest with ourselves. I personally don’t think that the bailout was necessary. It was uncalled for. What bothers me was the fact that these governors were buying bullet proof cars and Jets, where do they get the money from because many of them came into office wearing slippers.

There was only one man out of all of them that did not go about with large entourage and that is former governor Raji Fashola of Lagos State. Fashola would comply with traffic regulations. All of them were flying all over the place disturbing the peace of the poor people. They have been given the money but I still think Buhari should still find out what they did with their previous allocations. I don’t think they should have been bailed out until they give account of their previous allocations.

You just mentioned Fashola now, what then is your perception of his government and your expectations from the present government of Akinwunmi Ambode?

Fashola was not the only governor we have had in Lagos State but I know that people would say Dr Fasheun is talking favourably about Fashola because he has been collecting money from him. But I want people to ask Fashola. I want to tell Nigerians that when they see a good material they must commend it. I hope and pray that, that young man live to rule this country. I am not saying that he is an angel, there are no angels in Nigeria but we have to commend those who collected allocations and spent their allocations judiciously. There were 36 of them and if Nigerians could commend only one of them, we should have our eyes on him to come and serve us at a higher level. May be what he did in Lagos State, he would be able to repeat it nationally. He is an upright and energetic young man and I hope he does not join wrong gangs.

People are saying that his mentor and leader of the APC Asiwaju Bola Tinubu is working against the plan to appoint Fashola minister by President Buhari?

I don’t believe that rumour. Tinubu made him available for service in Lagos State as the governor, and he must have noticed his good performance. He is a member of the APC why should the leader of the APC prevent a good material from being offered the opportunity to serve at the national level where he could be useful to the entire country. I don’t believe that rumour. I think Tinubu means well for this country and that is why he has been spending his money. He knew that he would not become the president and yet he committed his personal fortune to the victory of the APC. I don’t think he would offer himself as a stumbling block to Fashola’s progress at any level.

What then do you expect from Ambode?

Well he is part of the successful government and I just hope he would not do less of what his predecessors did to be successful in Lagos state, because it is too early to say anything about him.

In terms of the security situation in the country what do you have to say?

There is no country that does not have security problem but it is just that our own is 100% a failure. The security of a nation depends on the happiness of the people and the type of government they have. If the people have been saying that they would make the country secure, this is the time to manifest that promise. But unfortunately Nigeria is so insecure that no Nigerian feels secured. If you go to the ghetto and the rich man’s land, the story is the same. People lock themselves in their houses because of the pervasive insecurity reigning on the streets. The country is so insecure that people just strolled across our boarders to enter and steal our citizens especially our girls and they go about bombing streets, churches and mosques because of the insecurity that we have. I personally think that we should set up a body to study why Nigeria is insecure to give recommendations on how to correct the system, while those in government should be very careful too.

The pipelines were so insecure that there was no day that we did not report vandalisation and oil theft along the pipelines. As a result, some of us sat down and said what we could do to assist the country to curb these aspects of our national lives. I personally got in touch with the NNPC in 2010 and wrote that I had some methods to be deployed along the oil pipelines that would reduce oil theft and vandalisation. For almost five years NNPC was going about considering our proposal and when they realized that our proposal was a good one, they said we did not register with the CAC and there was no way the government could do business with an unregistered group and they said that we should go and register OPC.

I said, I will not register OPC and I told them that OPC then, was 21 years old if I felt that it was necessary to do so, I should have done that all along. I said if I applied to the CAC within 24 hours they will register us but we would be subjected to their banning. If you will recollect Obasanjo was one of the causes that made the OPC came into existence and we fought for him, fought for his regime and he ruled this nation for eight years of the constitutional prescription. It was surprising that the same Obasanjo that we protected was the one that said if you see any OPC member shoot them at sight, so if we had been registered he needn’t have to go that far.

It was the NNPC that drafted the contract agreement they recommended a daily pay and I said there are many graduates in OPC and that Okada riders made more than what they recommended. Despite the fact that the pay was low, we accepted because it would reduce unemployment. At the end of the day we started and got fully committed to the job without any mobilization from the NNPC. We did the job for three months and at the end of three months nobody paid us one kobo. So let me then ask is that attitude confronting unemployment, is that the way to tackle security. We took away over 4,000 people from their homes and they were in the jungle battling with snakes, wild animals, and with various health hazards and at the end they were not considered for the pay that they themselves recommended to pay them.

Mind you, when we were securing the pipe lines NNPC wrote to commend us that there were changes and that vandalisation and thefts had reduced and that we have done very well. It was sad that a day to the end of the three months they sent mad dogs on us to destroy our secretariat at Ishagamu. They came after us and shot at our members and injured them. To me that was a sort of insecurity from the government because if those boys had decided to turn on the security operatives you can imagine what could have happened. Right now we are thinking of going to court so that the court would help us interpret the contract agreement the NNPC had with us, which the corporation itself drafted and which we all signed. Those in power are not doing justice to the people and injustice is a major cause of insecurity.